An older Berklee thread had been revived with some parents of kids attending the 5 week performance program this coming summer so I thought I would start a new thread for kids attending and parents of kids attending the 5 week. Or anyone considering attending. There has been a lot of discussion from people who either have attended and can answer questions as well as those like me that have a D who attended a shorter program last summer and plans to attend the 5 week this summer.
Jump on the thread if you are part of the upcoming Berklee 5 week group, student or parent. My D is a singer/songwriter and jazz vocalist. She plays guitar, piano and uke. She did the Berklee Stage Performance workshop last summer. She is a junior in HS and plans to audition for admission at the end of the 5 week.
For any parents of registered attendees that are interested in starting a FB parent group send me a pm and let me know and I'll see if Berklee will set one up. The kids have a closed FB group they have been invited to. It might be fun to have a meet up in Boston at the beginning of the 5 week, the end or both. :-)
Berklee 5 week summer 2017 participants
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Sound Engineering/Music Technology schools
My son's college choice is likely among these three: Elon, Drexel, and Belmont in their respective Music Industry/Music Technology programs. He is waiting on a few more schools RD (Syracuse, Stevens) but really likes his three EA admits. He would happily choose each one and changes his mind daily about which to accept. Input welcome from anyone with knowledge of these programs. Thank you!
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Double Degree Dilemma essay (written by David Lane)
The Double Degree Dilemma
Introduction
Music school admissions offices receive more and more visitors expressing an interest in becoming involved with a "double degree" program. At first glance, a double degree program seems to be the perfect solution if you are primarily interested in a liberal arts education, and are also an advanced musical performer. You just do both programs at once, right? After all, you've been juggling both interests all through high school.
The subject is much more complex than that. Actually, pursuing two diverse interests can be accomplished in several ways, and within various educational settings. Which one you choose depends on your interests and your ambitions. There is no one solution for everybody. To help make sense of it all, you first need to understand the different programs available. Then, to see how individual students find a good match for their needs, I will share some experiences I have had with visitors in a conservatory setting. To be complete, this is going to take a while—a bit over six printed pages of text to be exact. Why not get comfortable, and maybe we will have some fun along the way. I am David Lane, retired after thirty-three years as Director of Admissions at Peabody Conservatory. I will be your guide. At the end you should have a better idea of what you are looking for, how to ask for it, and what kinds of schools are most likely to offer what you want.
Getting the Names Right
One of the sources of confusion when dealing with the various "double" programs available is what to call them. Sometimes I refer to any such program as "cross-pollinated," but if you use that term no one will know what you mean. The reason a generic term would be handy is that almost every option exists out there—from being a pre-med major and simply taking piano lessons for credit, to straddling two different schools in an effort to gain two degrees at the same time. The terms most often thrown around are "double major" and "double degree." There is a big difference between the two, so let's take a moment to clear it up.
Liberal arts colleges offer "majors" within the context of a liberal arts curriculum. These programs are easily identifiable in that they lead to a bachelor of arts (B.A.) or bachelor of science (B.S.) degree. To keep from tripping over abbreviations like B.A./S., I will just use B.A. as short for any liberal arts degree. When you declare a "major," your liberal arts program will include a curricular emphasis in a particular area of study. Numerically, a "major" is made up of about a quarter of the curriculum (figure about 36 credits). The other three-quarters are the usual liberal arts courses. Within this context, students can do "double majors," combining two liberal arts majors (one of which might be music). At the completion of the course, graduating students receive one diploma, stating that they have earned a liberal arts degree. Both majors are listed.
At this point, we might as well mention "minors." A "minor" is usually half the size of a "major," being composed of only 16–18 credits. Thus, in addition to the option of declaring two majors, most liberal arts colleges will allow you to have a "major" and a "minor." But let's get back to the subject of double majors.
A liberal arts "major" signifies that you have an extended knowledge of a subject, but does not certify you to be a practitioner of a skill. By the same token, those pursuing a liberal arts music major are not necessarily practitioners of a musical art. Said another way, the holder of a B.A. in music should be able to discuss Beethoven—his life and music—but the same individual may or may not be able to perform any of Beethoven's compositions. This ability to perform is the major component of a bachelor of music degree.
A bachelor of music (B.M.) degree is far more specialized than a B.A., and, to repeat, its focus is typically on musical performance. In a B.M. program, the word "major" refers to a musical subject or performance area (clarinet, voice, piano, music theory, etc.). A "double major" for a music student in a B.M. program might be, say, piano and music history.
The ratio of musical to non-musical study contained in a bachelor of music program is roughly the reverse of the ratio for a B.A. program at a liberal arts college. That is, roughly three-quarters of the credits are in music performance and musical academics (theory, eartraining, etc.), and one quarter are in traditional liberal arts subjects. This ratio differs from school to school, and can approach fifty-fifty at some universities where there are university-wide course requirements.
The bachelor of music degree certifies a level of knowledge about music and also a level of performance ability, but the performance level is not the same for all schools offering the degree. Here's why. Entrance to a B.M. program is usually by audition, and competition for available space at the better known music schools tends to drive the required entrance level upward. It follows that the exit (graduation) level of performance will be higher for students that go to these schools. Over a period of decades, the more selective schools earn a well-deserved reputation for turning out high-level performers. This serves to attract even higher level performers to these schools, which enhances the effect.
This brings us to the subject of "double degree" programs. Double degree programs typically take five years to complete, and lead to two pieces of paper—a B.A. or B.S. in a liberal arts subject, and a B.M. in music. Double degree programs are available in all kinds of settings, and at all kinds of schools. Listing all the options here would bore you to death. So, abrupt as it may seem, I need to bring this stage of the discussion to a close.
Instead of trying to unravel the various programs offered by colleges, universities, and conservatories, a better approach is to focus on the reasons people seek such programs. To do that, I am going to introduce you to typical visitors from my career in admissions, and then make comments. Hopefully, one of the visitors will be in a situation similar to yours. Or perhaps you will fall somewhere in between.
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So You Want To Be Music Major - One Family's Experience
I originally wrote the following articles for my daughter's former high school and posted them on another college admissions discussion group. I have directed some folks there via PM but, due to the terms of service on this board, have never posted a direct link to them. I have finally decided to reproduce them here for any who may be interested.
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Double Majoring in Music at a UC or CSU
Hi everyone, I'm a community college student from East LA College and I've applied to USC, UCLA, CSULB, CSUF, and CSUN to transfer for Fall 2017. I've initially applied for Vocal Performance (Soprano) for all schools (Vocal Arts B.M for USC, CSUF and CSUN since it's only offered as a B.A at UCLA and CSULB). I've studied both Voice, Opera, and Music Technology during High School.
I've done my auditions at USC, UCLA, CSULB, and CSUF. I only have one more audition left to do which is at CSUN next Saturday. Here are my questions
- After thinking about it for a while, I'm interested in double majoring with Voice and the Music Industry B.A. Question is, is it possible to double major at these universities? I asked the graduate advisor and told me to ask about it at audition day with CSUN, but I'm not sure haha.
- Also, which of the universities I mentioned here have great Vocal and Music Industry programs?
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Northeastern for music composition?
My son has been admitted to Northeastern's dual computer science/ music composition & tech program. Can anyone provide information about the quality of music comp at NEU? He is also waiting for decisions from BU and North Texas - he's applied to double major; not sure whether he can get into music schools there as they are more competitive. He's also been accepted to Oklahoma and Trinity U. NEU seems like the easiest place to combine CS and music comp, but I am really trying to understand the quality of music comp at NEU.
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Audition Horror Story... Can I still get accepted?
So yesterday I had my audition for my top choice and the audition went... horrid.
During the day everything went fine, I did my theory test and aural test and they both went pretty well. Plus I was able to participate in the school's chorale and I even made some good connections within the alto sections (when I walked into the audition room the head of the choir department who was judging my auditions said "You've made a big impression on the Altos... you've basically got some agents who are advocating for you" which I found pretty hilarious).
Now, the audition: The pianist for my audition came out before it was my turn to audition and asked to look at my pieces. She scanned through them pretty quickly and didn't even ask for the tempo of one of them. I don't blame her for this, as it was already 3:30 and they were a bit behind so the auditioners were trying to move the auditions along as quickly as possible. So I get called in and I start my first piece (which was the one she didn't ask my tempo for) and the pianist is dragging SO MUCH. I usually practice it at about 120 bpm with a metronome and she played it at what I can guess was about 90 bpm. When I would try to speed up, she would keep slowing down so I had to sing at her tempo in order to not sound like I didn't know how to keep time. And then, on the last page, it turns out the version that I printed had the song in a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT KEY and the panel just decided that they had heard the best parts of the song and asked to move on to my second piece. I will take the blame for that key problem haha.
I wish I could say that was the worst that happened. The song I was singing has a few key changes, which I had circled and drawn an arrow to just in case. Well, half way through that song, the pianist forget to changes keys. Before you know it, we were both at different keys and different tempos and I got super nervous. My voice teacher had always told me to keep singing no matter what mishaps happen at an audition, so I just tried to brave through it and I got to the end of my piece, thankfully I was able to keep my original key down and I ended strongly on the high note that I was worried about.
I'm pretty okay with how my voice sounded, but I don't know if the problems with the pianist will affect their decision when it comes time to admit me. What do you guys think?
P.S. I don't blame the pianist one bit for what happened. It was late in the day and she was being rushed and from I overheard she was a student who had just volunteered to help out with audition day, so in a way I feel terrible for her too.
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Hypothetical choices: Money, teacher, reputation
As many on the forum are wrapping up auditions and enter the waiting game, I would like to tap the forum's collective wisdom on choices we hopefully will be faced with - Which of the institutions that I (or my child) has been accepted into should I pick to attend?
As I entertain this happy hypothetical question my daughter may face, I really see three main factors: money, teacher and school.
Money: self explanatory. Merit and/or need based aid.
Teacher: The studio you ended up in. Was it your first choice? How did the trial lesson go? Will he be around a lot?
School: Many sub factors here. I was thinking mostly 'reputation' but may include things like location, ability to double major, campus, etc.
Hypothetical situation #1:
You got into your top two choices. Choice #1: $0 aid, great teacher, world famous institution. Choice #2: full merit scholarship, awesome teacher, top 10 ranked.
Hypothetical situation #2:
Choice #1: Full aid, unknown teacher who seems very nice and trial lesson went well, top 10. Choice #2: decent aid, great teacher, top 5
Hypothetical situation #3:
I thought about making up situations with actual schools and teacher, but that didn't seem proper. Maybe putting school names is OK?
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Interlochen orchestral program?
I was accepted to Interlochen's orchestra program as an Orchestral Scholar for this summer. Is it worthwhile? I am a graduating HS senior. Also, what are the best electives?
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Money vs opportunities
I have a question/comment for some of the veteran parents. Maybe there will be some relevance to others too while making the first college/financial decision...it won't be your last.
My D says you only really continue for the DMA if you are interested in academics (teaching or research). This is for voice so maybe it's different for other instruments - and I think this discussion has been covered here briefly before. I do know students who have done PDs or ADs but on full rides (and I assume that includes some living expenses - and these students were exceptionally talented and had often worked professionally).
However I know some schools are offering tuition coverage/discounts for DMA studies as a way of continuing to learn and perform...with the idea that you may or may not finish the DMA but you continue to get experience...until you land somewhere...presumably a young artist program. Thankfully my D has no interest in this.
I feel suspect about these "opportunities". Frankly I get tired of the idea that my D should "pay to sing"...for how long?!?! Even if she were only paying living expenses at a school, it's not really work. I find it slightly disingenuous to keep students in school making no money in such a tough field...as if more schooling is the issue of no acceptance to a YAP program. Maybe more time and training with a teacher...but more school? I'm a skeptic.
In undergrad, my D did do 2 pay to sing festivals (they both had some money/opportunities/connections that made it worthwhile imo). Still for grad school, she has only done paid to sing (meaning she did sit out her year before grad school as she didn't get an offer). I know there are connections/benefits etc still I think there's a point where money needs to be made...and I hit it after undergrad...others may vary based on philosophy or funds available.
My D did not try for a young artist program last fall wanting to wait a year. But what has been nice is she is getting paid city/regional gigs consistently now (she also does some drama). She understands she has to get paid so she hasn't tried for the non-paid ones.
So what's the issue? Have other parents experienced this pull to keep paying?!?! My D mentions friends (and I don't want this to be gossipy - what people do with their money is their business - still it does have an impact on me and that's what I'm focusing on) that are completely supported by their parents doing more "studies" and more "pay to sing" and living abroad not working since they don't have work visa - just singing with a teacher. So fine.
But does it ever end...the idea if you just spend a little (meaning a lot) more money on some well-known program or longer studies...her dreams will come true? I'm following the philosophy that getting a paid role will lead to another paid role (since I'm out of money).
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Music Composition Grad School choices
Is there a thread that lists where students go to graduate school coming out of various undergrad programs in composition/electroacoustic composition? Specifically Brown MEME, Harvard, Oberlin, U Mich PAT, Northwestern, Peabody, NEC, BoCo, Carnegie Mellon, NYU?
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Jazz drums master degree
Hello guys!
I am looking for universities with a good jazz program for a drummer, that also offers assistantships.
Any suggestions?
Thank you!
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Contemporary Music summer programs
Can anyone offer any insight on Summer programs for Contemporary Music? My daughter is applying as a vocal performance or singer/songwriter concentration. She currently has one acceptance and the program wants a committment in 2 weeks. This is where it gets dicy as we will not hear from other programs until much later. All of the apps are not even in yet! So how do we navigate this process without knowing her outcomes yet?
She is appying to the followig programs:
Interlochen, Idyllwild, Grammy Camp, Berklee 5 week, UC Denver music industry, NYU Steinhardt
This is all new to me. I need all the help I can get in learning this new world. Thank you in advance!
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University of Michigan 2021 SMTD Admission
Hi, I am an RD applicant for Umich Vocal Program undergraduate program. Please feel free to post anything about your application progress and admission decisions for SMTD.
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Looking for music ed programs
My son is applying for music ed next year, auditioning on percussion and is looking to add a few non-in state schools to his list. (We are in VA). His criteria are:
- Large university experience
- Marching band (which means a football team)
- Does not look down on drum corps participation
- Has to have an actual campus (not a "city" school - he wants traditional quads and green space etc.)
- Strong percussion studio
- East of the Mississippi
His instructors have mentioned the following but I don't know too much about them or their music programs:
U Maryland
U South Carolina
U Tennessee Knoxville
UNC Greensboro
Florida State
U Mass
Indiana
Any feedback on these, or others we might add based on his criteria?
Also, I am looking for any feedback on Virginia Tech's music/music ed programs - there is not much info out there. Thanks.
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CIM and accreditation
https://www.hlcommission.org/download/_ActionLetters/Cleveland Institute of Music Action Letter 7-8-15.pdf
My child has auditioned at CIM for the BM program. After he submitted his application we received a letter regarding the school being put on Notice with the accreditation folks. The issues seem pretty concerning (see PDF above), and I've been told that peer reviewers are currently are producing a report that Trustees will consider at their June 2017 meeting. That review will be considering the improvement plan and if any or all of the target areas have been brought into expectations.
I noticed that there has been a lot of turnover at CIM. There is a new president, all of the administrators who were introduced at audition were "interim", and two teachers have left the specific department into which my child is applying.
If my child is offered a place at the school, of course I will contact the president and others to ask a lot of questions. For now, does anyone in this community have any insight or input? Does anyone have a child at CIM? What are the implications for the class of 2021 if the school loses its accreditation?
Thanks.
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How competitive is it to get into Eastman's Horizons summer program?
I have a piano-playing son who is currently a sophomore in high school, and I would like him to explore some summer program options. He has never done a music summer program before, and I think it would be a good opportunity for him to see what it is like to be immersed in music. Is Eastman super competitive to get into for piano? I am having a hard time understanding some info. on their website. It appears that applications are not offered/accepted until January? When is one notified about acceptance?
Are there any other summer programs you would suggest for piano?
Thanks in advance for any wisdom you can share!
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Bienen early decision
Does anyone have experience with Bienen early decision? What's the acceptance rate? Does ED increase chances of getting in, or does it depend on the studio? I can imagine a scenario where the teacher doesn't want to accept a student early in the hopes that there will be better applicants with regular admission.
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Musicians and Parents - Introduce yourself!
I don't know if this will work, but sometimes when I'm reading a post, I'm wishing I could remember more about the poster - parent or student? Performance? Music Ed? What instrument? I thought it might be nice if we could have a quick point of reference. Hopefully, you will all jump in and help keep this thread toward the front. I'll go first:
Parent (Mom), S is horn performance major at Juilliard, D is HS senior, violinist, looking to either minor or continue as avocation - not sure where.
Next?
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Merit Scholarships, Grant Need, and EFC
I have a question for all those that have previously gone through this process. In general, when the school assigns your grant by need, will they assign the amount based on the applicant's EFC before taking into consideration any applicant's merit scholarship or afterwards? Putting my question into numbers, let's say the cost of the school is $60,000.00, the applicant's EFC is $30,000.00 and receives a merit scholarship of $10,000.00, will the total package offer will be $60,000- $30,000 - $10,000 = $20,000.00 (expected yearly cost of attendance) or $60,000 - 10,000 - 20,000 = $30,000 (expected yearly cost of attendance). If it is the latter (which I believe it is), then shouldn't the applicant be expected that most acceptance offers will fluctuate around the same number (EFC) regardless of the merit scholarships assigned unless the merit scholarship goes beyond the EFC? Am I assuming this right? Thank you in advance in sharing your thoughts and experiences.
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