S, HS junior, continues his jazz bass musician path.
We have experienced sort of a transition of focus. Efforts in the past have pertained to the capabilities of S himself. Discovering the ways to prioritize and address technique, repertoire, practice routine, and other habits and characteristics. With an outlook of 1 year until audition season, it seems like executing the plans that are now in place will be alright. Whether or not this satisfaction with the plan indicates that the path is laid out perfectly, there is now more time to redirect attention from S to the colleges where he would like to study. More time is now available to learn exactly which schools start to accept application on which dates and how this can lead to auditions in which months. More time to learn who are the teachers at each place and how they are regarded. More time to lay out plans for college visits over (our, not their) spring breaks.
In this spirit, S went on his first official college tour this week with a sample lesson, a chat with music admissions, and even being invited impromptu into a practice room to try out a song on the bass with a small group. S was very satisfied with what he saw of the college lifestyle.
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GoForth Journal
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Double Degree Dilemma essay (written by David Lane)
The Double Degree Dilemma
Introduction
Music school admissions offices receive more and more visitors expressing an interest in becoming involved with a "double degree" program. At first glance, a double degree program seems to be the perfect solution if you are primarily interested in a liberal arts education, and are also an advanced musical performer. You just do both programs at once, right? After all, you've been juggling both interests all through high school.
The subject is much more complex than that. Actually, pursuing two diverse interests can be accomplished in several ways, and within various educational settings. Which one you choose depends on your interests and your ambitions. There is no one solution for everybody. To help make sense of it all, you first need to understand the different programs available. Then, to see how individual students find a good match for their needs, I will share some experiences I have had with visitors in a conservatory setting. To be complete, this is going to take a while—a bit over six printed pages of text to be exact. Why not get comfortable, and maybe we will have some fun along the way. I am David Lane, retired after thirty-three years as Director of Admissions at Peabody Conservatory. I will be your guide. At the end you should have a better idea of what you are looking for, how to ask for it, and what kinds of schools are most likely to offer what you want.
Getting the Names Right
One of the sources of confusion when dealing with the various "double" programs available is what to call them. Sometimes I refer to any such program as "cross-pollinated," but if you use that term no one will know what you mean. The reason a generic term would be handy is that almost every option exists out there—from being a pre-med major and simply taking piano lessons for credit, to straddling two different schools in an effort to gain two degrees at the same time. The terms most often thrown around are "double major" and "double degree." There is a big difference between the two, so let's take a moment to clear it up.
Liberal arts colleges offer "majors" within the context of a liberal arts curriculum. These programs are easily identifiable in that they lead to a bachelor of arts (B.A.) or bachelor of science (B.S.) degree. To keep from tripping over abbreviations like B.A./S., I will just use B.A. as short for any liberal arts degree. When you declare a "major," your liberal arts program will include a curricular emphasis in a particular area of study. Numerically, a "major" is made up of about a quarter of the curriculum (figure about 36 credits). The other three-quarters are the usual liberal arts courses. Within this context, students can do "double majors," combining two liberal arts majors (one of which might be music). At the completion of the course, graduating students receive one diploma, stating that they have earned a liberal arts degree. Both majors are listed.
At this point, we might as well mention "minors." A "minor" is usually half the size of a "major," being composed of only 16–18 credits. Thus, in addition to the option of declaring two majors, most liberal arts colleges will allow you to have a "major" and a "minor." But let's get back to the subject of double majors.
A liberal arts "major" signifies that you have an extended knowledge of a subject, but does not certify you to be a practitioner of a skill. By the same token, those pursuing a liberal arts music major are not necessarily practitioners of a musical art. Said another way, the holder of a B.A. in music should be able to discuss Beethoven—his life and music—but the same individual may or may not be able to perform any of Beethoven's compositions. This ability to perform is the major component of a bachelor of music degree.
A bachelor of music (B.M.) degree is far more specialized than a B.A., and, to repeat, its focus is typically on musical performance. In a B.M. program, the word "major" refers to a musical subject or performance area (clarinet, voice, piano, music theory, etc.). A "double major" for a music student in a B.M. program might be, say, piano and music history.
The ratio of musical to non-musical study contained in a bachelor of music program is roughly the reverse of the ratio for a B.A. program at a liberal arts college. That is, roughly three-quarters of the credits are in music performance and musical academics (theory, eartraining, etc.), and one quarter are in traditional liberal arts subjects. This ratio differs from school to school, and can approach fifty-fifty at some universities where there are university-wide course requirements.
The bachelor of music degree certifies a level of knowledge about music and also a level of performance ability, but the performance level is not the same for all schools offering the degree. Here's why. Entrance to a B.M. program is usually by audition, and competition for available space at the better known music schools tends to drive the required entrance level upward. It follows that the exit (graduation) level of performance will be higher for students that go to these schools. Over a period of decades, the more selective schools earn a well-deserved reputation for turning out high-level performers. This serves to attract even higher level performers to these schools, which enhances the effect.
This brings us to the subject of "double degree" programs. Double degree programs typically take five years to complete, and lead to two pieces of paper—a B.A. or B.S. in a liberal arts subject, and a B.M. in music. Double degree programs are available in all kinds of settings, and at all kinds of schools. Listing all the options here would bore you to death. So, abrupt as it may seem, I need to bring this stage of the discussion to a close.
Instead of trying to unravel the various programs offered by colleges, universities, and conservatories, a better approach is to focus on the reasons people seek such programs. To do that, I am going to introduce you to typical visitors from my career in admissions, and then make comments. Hopefully, one of the visitors will be in a situation similar to yours. Or perhaps you will fall somewhere in between.
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Berklee College of Music Additional Materials
So my interviewer at Berklee told me that I can submit more materials if I wanted. Do you think if I don't submit materials then I would not have a chance of getting in?
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Music School Visits
I'd like to propose something. I know there's a "college visit" section on CC and it's pretty useful in learning what to expect about the general atmosphere of a campus, but for music majors there are a lot of details that aren't necessarily going to be reported there. This is especially true of a place like Peabody that is, officially part of JMU, but very different from the parent school.
Since we're getting into "shopping season", I think we could help each other by posting what we see specifically in regard to music departments on this forum. I envision doing that in addition to whatever we want to add to the regular College Visit section.
Is that a kosher thing to do here? Are we all down with that idea?
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Syracuse University Audition Trouble
I am doing a video audition for Syracuse's Music Industry BM. I am a vocalist, so I am auditioning with that. I am required to audition with 6 songs. 3 of them are to be done with a backing track that they have selected and available for download. However, there are no listed lyrics and it is required that one of them have an "improvised solo".
I have no clue what I am supposed to be doing for the music, or what they mean by an "improvised solo" as a vocalist. I even had a few of my classical vocalist friends look at the audition requirements and are puzzled by them as well.
I am sending in my audition as videos through Acceptd. They are due Jan. 1st. If anyone has done this already and or knows what to do and could give me some input, that would be great. All help is appreciated! Thank you.
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Music Technology Major -vs- Business Major/Music Minor
My son thinks he wants to major in Music Technology. I think he is better off with a major in business and minor in music. He is a talented guitar player and really has no other interests aside from music. Although extremely talented, I find that there are so many talented kids his age that perform in bands. As a career he obviously wants to make a good living but still do something he is passionate about. He is an average to slightly above average student--no honors classes. Any thoughts? Then we can discuss schools.
Thanks so much.
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Flute Pieces- Difficulty Ranking
Hi,
I'm not looking to apply as a flute major in a conservatory but I'm sending in supplements to top universities.
I was wondering if any fellow flutists or musicians have an idea what type of repertoire is typically known to be challenging.
Is being able to play Ibert Concerto Mvt. 1 considered impressive, even among top musicians? What about Mozart in G?
What do flutists usually send in besides solo pieces from orchestral excerpts (i.e Mendelssohn's, Debussy's Afternoon of a Faun, etc.)? Thanks!
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Liberal Arts Schools with strong classical percussion
My son is a junior. He is a percussionist, has been first chair in the H.S. Band since he was a freshman, he participates youth orchestra, made All State and I believe would love to have a career in an orchestra, however he realizes that this is an incredibly difficult feat for any instrument, but especially so for percussion due the the small number of positions in each, so he has decided against pursuing that path. Additionally, he acknowledges that he does not have the self discipline to practice the way that he should and has been amazed at how little has gotten him as far as it has; he knows that it will not continue that way forever. Obviously this is NOT the set of characteristics that makes for a performance major and he knows it. So... he has decided that he would like to pursue a career in optometry, but would like to stay immersed in percussion at college.
Does anyone have any suggestions or advice with regard to how we should proceed? He has thought that maybe he could major in music and take the pre requisites for optometry during the summers or as his electives; I am just wondering if there are things we are not taking into consideration?? I understand that being at a school with a conservatory would not necessarily be helpful due to the competition and lack of access to the best percussion professors for lessons? If he chose a performance degree and got accepted into a conservatory, would he be able to take these pre-reqs or would the program be too demanding? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
We have a preliminary list but would really like to begin making some visits:
Bard
Boston University
NYU
Columbia
Gettysburg
Queens College
Johns Hopkins
Temple
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Arts Supplement Material, Specifically Columbia University
My son has submitted supplement arts material to all the colleges he's applying to. One thing we noticed is that some colleges don't necessarily make it easy to supply them with such supplemental materials, almost as if they're discouraging such submission. Of these colleges, Columbia seems to stand way out. They provide "instructions" on submitting the supplemental materials, BUT they don't provide the link to the Slideroom where my son can upload his music material. We looked and searched everywhere and we just can't find a means to submitting the materials. We're about to just give it up. This is AFTER receiving the portal account set up info and all that. Of course, they're closed on holidays so no one to call, either. Does anyone have any info on the way Columbia handles such materials in reality?
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Proper Attire for Music Audition
Happy New Year! What did your sons wear to their auditions? Any recommendations on proper attire for a music audition? Did they wear suits? Oxfords and khakis? Polo shirts? Thanks in advance.
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Majoring in Music with no high school interest
I wish to major in music (piano performance) but had a question as to how much weight is placed on high school classes that were musically related (in my case pretty much none). So do colleges care that much that I took no music classes in high school or will they be more worried about what I can do now (ie. my audition). I've been playing music my entire life I just never realized I wanted to study it until now (I know, bad timing). I am also currently in the military so perhaps an online course or two in music would be worth my time to augment my lack of high school classes? Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated
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Qs about music composition schools from newbie parent
Hi, folks, I'm new to the music world and need some help. My son (hs junior) has been sort of planning to major in computer science. But he's recently become very interested in music composition ( especially electronic / digital / video game music) and thinks he might want to study music comp instead. Or maybe double major in CS and music comp. I am wondering how realistic it is for him to be admitted to a music program, and what he should be considering at
this point. He's had about 10 years of piano lessons but hasn't been too serious until recently, so he's a solid player, but is not going to knock the socks off of anyone in a college audition. He also plays oboe and percussion in school band, but is kind of average there. He's taking AP music theory - I think this is when he really got interested - he loves the class and is making an A in it. We recently hired a music comp teacher (PhD student) to give him some comp lessons, and he's excited about starting those. He is thinking he might like U N. Texas or UT Austin (we live in Tx). He will be a Natl Merit Semifinalist and is strong enough academically that he can probably get into CS at UT (and yes I know how competitive that is). I have NO idea what it takes ro get into a good college music program. Can you all give me some advice, please? THANK YOU!
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Extra curriculars, honor societies etc. matter?
I am wondering how much other kinds of extra curriculars and honors societies matter for music education admissions? My son's activities, predictably, center around music stuff (lessons, marching band, orchestra, district band, drum corps etc.). He played a sport for two years but will not do it this year - no time. Do other activities matter much? I am a little concerned that there is not much else on his "resume" other than music, and very little in the "leadership" categories because he does not have much time to dive deeply into other activities and keep his grades up.
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Loyola Marymount New Orleans Question
This discussion was created from comments split from: Search Tips (and other insights).
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Applying for Undergraduate Vocal Performance - school Diversity
I have been a lurker for more than three years and I thank all the posters for your immeasurable knowledge contribution. I am not a musician and had no idea of the complexity and preparations for my D2 senior year as she prepares for her college/conservatory application process for a vocal performance major in classical music. She is presently trimming down her list of too many schools using the standard criteria of teacher, cost, school reputation, academic fit and location. There is one important issue for my daughter that I have never seen discussed here that probably out weights everything else for her list inclusion (except maybe cost); school and studio diversity.
We live in Puerto Rico and although she is a proud American citizen, she also embraces her Hispanic heritage and culture. D2 has also been blessed to be a member of a very well renowned children’s ensemble for close to twelve years. She has sung in major opera houses, poverty stricken town cathedrals, Europe, Vatican, US mainland and embassies. She has been exposed to people from other races, cultures and socio-economic background. These diversified experiences are part of her.
Which schools, teachers/studio embrace diversity? Any students or parents that might want to share their experiences? Thank you in advance for sharing.
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Chicken and egg. Trial lessons first or apply first?
Hello,
DD and I were talking about trial lessons and when we should be trying to arrange them. For the schools nearby (aka East Coast), we plan to arrange them prior to Dec 1 deadline for application. For places that are further away and would require flying, we were planning on scheduling them when and if she gets invited for live auditions. They are Rice (Shepherd), USC (Thorton) and UMich.
She brought up what seemed like a valid point that she needs to indicate her teacher choices on the application and w/o trial lessons, she'd be making uninformed choices.
What are your thoughts? Did you or are you planning on trial lessons prior to application submission?
Thanks.
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Vocal Performance PreScreen Notifications - Graduate and Undergraduate
This thread is for Vocal Performance graduate and undergraduate applicants and/or their parents, teachers, etc.
I thought it might be useful, and interesting, to start a thread of Prescreen Notification Dates. Current and future applicants will get a rough idea of when to expect their notifications from each school.
It might be useful to have a set format so people can sort through the results more easily.
The format might look something like this:
List the school first.
Identify yourself as Undergraduate or Graduate. (Notifications may be different for each category.)
Following a '-' symbol, type the Date and Type of notification (email, snail mail, status checker, phone??).
If you'd like, you can post your results ('passed' or 'declined' -- ie, invited to audition or declined), since notification dates may be different for each of those categories.
For this thread, I'm most interested in WHEN and HOW the various schools notify prescreened applicants of their decisions, rather than whether or not the applicants were accepted.
It might be useful to keep commentary to a minimum, so readers can sort quickly through the list.
I thought our list could look something like this:
Example University, Graduate - Dec 10, status checker (passed)
College of Singing, Undergraduate - Jan 4, email (declined)
Music Conservatory, Undergraduate - Dec 20, snail mail
Favorite College, Graduate - Jan 21, email (declined)
Opera University, Undergraduate - Dec 12, email
(Please don't make your entry Bold, I used bold type here just to set the list apart from the rest of my post.)
If enough people partake to make this worthwhile, I may try to alphabetize the list by school names as we go along.
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Oboe Audition Experiences
Hello everyone!
I am a senior in high school and preparing for my upcoming college auditions.
If any of you have some experience with the following schools, I would love to hear about what the audition day experience was like for you. If you are an oboist or the parent of an oboist, I would also greatly appreciate hearing more specific details such as repertoire played, final results, and anything else you would be willing to share.
I am auditioning at Temple, BU, Oberlin, NEC, Eastman, and Curtis. I have friends auditioning at Juilliard, CIM, Northwestern, and UMich so if you could provide details on those as well it would be greatly appreciated.
I realize there are other oboe posts in the archive, but many of them are five years old or more, and border on irrelevancy. Thanks in advance!
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Masters in vocal performance for a slightly older applicant
Hi all,
I guess I'm an unusual case. I'm currently working on a PhD in physics, but my true passion lies in opera and I would really love to go back to school one day and get a masters in vocal performance, even if I have little chance of becoming a professional. My undergraduate degree was also unrelated to music (astrophysics), and all my experience with singing comes from taking lessons since high school and performing in college opera productions. Another issue is I will be pretty old by the time I get my PhD (at least 26 or 27). I am a mezzo soprano, and I'm somewhat worried about starting serious training too late. Have any of you ever applied to grad school in singing in your late 20s? Also, please share any advice you have on preparing for the application.
Thanks!
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What could be good things to bring in trial lessons?
My son has several trial lessons scheduled in January. (piano)
I would like him to leave a good impression in trial lessons, and I would like him to bring something to professors.
None of them asked for money, but when he did trial lesson with professor at ithaca (he didn't ask for fee either), we prepared amazon gift card and he was happy with it. I think it's least I can do since their time is very important too.
This time, I prepared a wine, and perhaps also amazon gift card. Is there anything more appropriate?
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